Jared Diamond talks to Philippe Sands

A brilliant new theory of how and why some nations recover from trauma and others don't, by the author of the landmark bestsellers Guns, Germs, and Steel and Collapse. Diamond reveals how successful nations recover from crisis through selective change - a coping mechanism more commonly associated with personal trauma. Adding a psychological dimension to the awe-inspiring grasp of history, geography, economics, and anthropology that marks all his work, Upheaval reveals how both nations and individuals can become more resilient. He talks to the human rights lawyer and author of East West Street, Philippe Sands.